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My experience with vinelover

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I'd selected Tallahassee as my new home of relocation from Texas with William, Boyd, and Arthur(other houseboy mate). Everything about the situation was very, very ideal: tending to the animals, being in the Earth from early AM to the evening, the correspondance throughout the days with Boyd and Arthur, the quiet-setting ambiance and discipline of my efforts to provide.

These are all major pluses, but William's deception, emotional tyranny, and conniving, manipulative ways canceled out all of the positive aspects.
To start, his home is in Monticello(which is vaguely stated about in his profile). That's fine! I like that the area was more remote, off-the-grid-esque and tranquil.
William off-the-bat asked me to lie about the plane ticket purchased for my flight to Georgia(drove the rest of the way to Florida), which was to be a round-trip-deal in a trial run session for a week. I was under the impression that Boyd knew about this. Another request was to lie about the hotel room which only had one king-size bed, on the sole night we stayed in Georgia. This placed me in an awkward state, since to lie is against my morals 'n principles. In addition to this, Boyd is a very nice fellow! I am rather keen on this guy, and we remain friends because of our similarities in personality. I never did tell him a lie.

I worked hard outside of the house - always - and with pride. After a week, William would not tell me the value of my physical input. I was paying of the plane ticket he'd bought AND the ticket home to retrieve my truck to travel back to FL with. He then tacked on water, food, and electricity to the bill. This goes into defiance of what is stated in his Houseboy.com details and was NEVER talked about. It sort of defeats all my purposes in being a HB, doesn't it? I'd never have to work so much harder if he'd just bought the round-trip. In the end, he decided to purchase a bus ticket that was Texas-bound - again, against everything we'd discussed prior to my arrival. He constantly used the excuse that he'd forgotten about what we'd agreed on. Even when I'd produce the actual wordy swap betwix us both, the denial remained. This is the inner mind-workings of a compulsive liar that will always have to be right even when evidence is presented.

Aside from this, there is no talking to William with a satisfying outcome. Yes, I wanted to be a part of the "familiness" in the house, but he'd shoot down everything I'd talk about. He has a mechanism engraved in his psyche - one that wants to confront and create conflict no matter what the issue or subject at hand. Superiority complex. It's not very possible to converse with this man. His partner of 24 years says he's ugly to people all the time for no reason. From his own mouth, he declared that he cannot know empathy and will not spare people's feelings(in a conversation we'd had as he came home to me raking up his frontage). He is an emotional terrorist and only has concerns for and what will benefit himself.

SO! If you can learn to repress yourself in this oppressive atmospere, then the job could be a match for you. The work is constant and hard - that is, if you are unfamiliar with strong work ethics. Like I said in my first paragraph > There is so much good going on for this place.

I cannot be sour about the ongoings!, because I had the experience that I desired, albeit only for a little over a week's worth of time. As I reached a saturation point of just how much I could tolerate, I reached out to Sean, a local to Sneads, Florida, and my new home is now with him - as an equal partner. Life is now grand, and I have to thank William for serving as the negatory catalyst in where my feet landed.

I hope this will help anyone that decides to take his offer of a plane ticket to Florida... Nobody deserves to be placed in such frustration if a life without that is craved.

Thanks for reading, and good luck to all those houseboys trying to find their place in life.

Carlos Lopez

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(This is my first membership on a site like HB. And it certainly the first time I have participated on a forum section. Don't mean to speak out of turn).

Interesting experience and not one I would want to go through. I retired from healthcare, but during my working days, I hired many people and if they were from out of the city were my offices were located, ethics and integrity bound me to follow precisely the agreement that had been reached. Being a houseboy means doing a job. The description for what the HB does may vary from situation to situation, but it needs to be in writing. there is a position for all outside estate work, then that's the job. If there is a position involving inside the home work and the understand of physical contact is made, then that is the job. If you bring a potential HB in for an interview, it is only fair that his expenses, from the moment he leaves his home, until he returns, be the responsibility of the employer -- unless different conditions are agreed to, in writing, prior to the "interview". If you go to an interview by air, you should return the same. If prior arrangements are not made for physical contact, then a hotel room with one king bed is inappropriate.

Your comments above show that you ended up with a real jerk. I hope that, as a prospective employer, no one will ever say I did not leave up to my end of the agreement. I'm glad you are happy with your present situation and hope it goes as long as you want it to and your "employer" is fair and honest.

Gene Schneider (LegitNeed)

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Hello, I did not realize this had been posted or I would have replied sooner. The situation here was rather unique to me. I mean that since I have never seen anybody so out of touch with reality. The only job this person has had was delivering papers for a local new paper route, so I guess he has not had to deal with much in the way of expectation. I am not going to go "tit for tat" on this cause; its just not worth it, but I will tell you my side of what happened just for entertainment purposes, if nothing else. I had talked to Carlos for quite sometime, here as well as on Facebook. I told him we had a farm house situation and at that time were looking for help keeping things in order like feeding animals and such. When feeding animals its not like you can just do it when you chose, skip a day here or feed them in the afternoon when they have been feed in the morning, the animals are hungry and depend on us for food-daily! So he told me he had worked on a farm and had taken care of animals before and he was very good at it. I said sounds like you would be a good match. I then offered, would you like to come and stay a week to see if you like it. He said he did not have the money for such a trip right now(which I am sure most of us have heard on here before) So I offered to pay for his ticket, if he came over and worked the cost of the ticket off. He agreed. Well, Arthur and I picked him up in Atlanta cause we had business there and it was cheaper to fly him to Atlanta. When we picked him up. we were taken by how much baggage he had just for one week. So from there we went to the hotel and he began to unpack a few things. We reminded him we would be leaving the next day, but we thought it odd some of the things he had brought, One thing was something sentimental to him from a friend that caught my eye. I asked him why he brought that with him. He said it meant a lot to him and it was good luck. I was like ok! So the next day we drive home and we determine that he has a colorful past. One he had been arrested for position of drugs, and he like to smoke. Arthur and I rolled our eyes. This fact did help explain why this guy was 31 years old and still had no drivers license. When he told me that, I thought how odd, when I was 16, I could not wait til I got my driving permit. So that and the drug charge was red flag. Then when we get him home and Arthur (who is a houseboy from here) looks at me like, you picked a winner, and I asked him what did he mean. He then said go look in his room. So I did and there is all this weird stuff, like comic books,a large plastic rat, and weirder yet a skull of some animal. I asked him why did he brought all these things for just a week. His reply was "what if i liked it here, he may not go back." I thought, well that's presumptuous of him.

Well we all work in Tallahassee during the day so Carlos was going to be spending the day by himself. This was a lot of trust on our part and I was very nervous about this, so I made a list of what tasks he could do during the day that fit what we talked about over the last few weeks/month for working off his cost of the ticket . I then showed him around, and gave a demonstration of what the finish result was to look like. I own three businesses, so I have trained a few employees. As soon as I gave him the rake and saw him use it, I realized this kid(31) had never use a hand tool in his life. He was clueless. I thought OMG what have I gotten myself into. It was obvious he lied about what he had done and when asked about it he changed his story to match the situation, when asked about the differences in the story, he denied having ever said that, I was like so X,Y, and Z now don't count? You never worked on a farm, he was it wasn't actually a farm, it was my parents garden. I then asked how big it was. He said it was big!, how big? As big as our backyard. Then I asked how big is your back yard? Never got a straight answer. Anyway, it was quite a lesson in what a person calls "big", let me tell you.

So to move the week along, I had to go to work, we had to leave him here and we just moved thought it. We would come home notice he did about 2 hours of work and say he had been working all day, Well, then we found out what he was doing all day. Arthur had found him on Grindr and knew what time he logged on and off. So he was looking for hook ups the hold time we were at work. So when we asked about this he denied it and said he wanted to leave. I said fine. He said that I had to buy him a plane ticket, I said no I didn't, all I had to do was get him back home and I would take him in the morning to the bus station and gladly send him home. Well morning came bags packed and he says he does not want to go to bus station, but instead wants the cash for the ticket. I thought that is strange but told him if I give him cash that my obligation with him was fulfilled and he was on his own, and if he came back after the money was spent and wanted a way home, he would only get a no from me. So he agreed and I gave him the cash, well about thirty minutes later a car comes by to pick him up, someone he had been talking to on Grindr, and then it hit me. Why had he brought so many of his personal things just for a one week visit. Apparently, these guys had been talking for months and were comic book types and such and basically when I offered to fly him here it was the ticket.

I know at that point I had been played. So sorry for such a long story! But feel free to ask Arthur who has lived with us for a year and a half now, about Carlos. So be-careful guys there are a lot of different situations out there. Best thing to do is check up as much as you can and ask other guys on here who might know them. Play it safe.

Sincerely William

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Hello Houseboy.com World,

I am Arthur and have been here with Boyd and William since 24 Oct 2013. How I am going to reply to all of this is: I have printed off the above (all three inputs) and will give MY FACTUAL PERSEPTION/OPINION/VIEWPOINT on things in the order that you read them as stated above. I will not demean anyone involved. Period. I will skip the HATE that is being used (Love Conquers Hate, right? Can I get an AMEN?!). To make it easier to follow, I will do my best to follow each participant's "paragraphs."

Here we go! ;)

Carlos Lopez, Lopez817:

  • I had a handful of selections to choose from before I chose to come here to Florida from Indiana to Boyd and William. Why them? They, more William actually, were offering something better than the others and more to what I wanted and could be more acceptable about my decision when I told my family where and what I was going to be doing and for whom. I'm sure there are "houseboys" on here that can/could relate. I was coming from living in the city to a place in a country setting; something totally new to me. Might I say, it has been such a great change of lifestyle and a great learning/knowledge experience as well.
  • I asked the right questions: I verified via Google Maps where this place was, I verified his places of businesses, I made sure he was who he said he was and had (his businesses), I asked for a round-trip plane ticket so I would have a way back home and received as such (I was emailed an itinerary of plane travel), I was upfront and honest about what all I had and did not have and made arrangements to fill in the voids (because nature hates a void!).
  • Yes, William and I picked up Carlos from the ATL airport. We were in Atlanta on a business trip and it just made logical sense to get two birds with one stone there. I didn't know Carlos was flying in on a one-way ticket. Yes, the hotel room only had one bed, but it also had a pull out couch as well. Boyd is, indeed, a nice fellow.
  • Carlos's work around the house/farm is hearsay at this point. I did not and have not read their (Carlos's and William's) conversations, so I cannot provide my input on that. To me, each "houseboy" and each "employer" should know what to say, have written, agreeables/expectations, etc. before people start traveling. Carlos came to the point where he wanted to leave and bus fare was provided.
  • I felt as thought Carlos did not want to be "a part of the 'familiness' in the house." His actions spoke louder than his words; I had found him multiple times invested about being on Grindr and-the-like apps, as well as Adam4Adam.com. (This will come into play later.) Communication is a two-way street; we are to listen, acknowledge, and converse with one another at the level where both (or more) parties can understand the conversation thoroughly. From my viewpoint, this didn't happen between Carlos and William. I have been here 1.5yrs, Carlos only about a week. This is America; are we not all out to benefit ourselves? "Employers" "hire" "houseboys" for a set of reasons to benefit them, and, just the same, "houseboys" are "hired" by "employers" because they see a benefit there.
  • "The work is constant and hard..." Of course it is! It's a farm (at the time there were goats, chickens, rabbits, a dog, and worms)! With a huge (approx. 80'x80') garden! There is always something to do here year round.
  • It could very well be that Carlos "reached a saturation of just how much [he] could tolerate" because he was not a good match for this household and the people there. Sometimes it doesn't always work out and we have to be an adult about it and act/plan accordingly. Carlos is still, as far as I know, with Sean and they are great together. See? Things worked out there; they were a better fit verses our place.
  • Our place is not one of "frustration." Sure, tensions are strained from time-to-time, but that's going to happen when new people start living closely together; for example, dorm life, multi-generations under one roof, extended stay shelters, etc.

Gene Schneider, LegitNeed:

  • Firstly, let's give a handie to Gene for being honest in his response in his first line. The forums are here so that people can give their two-cents about anything and everything, whether if it's helpful or not.
  • Gene gave his two-cents based upon his past experiences and was showing his example of what he would have done in the situation described. At least, that's how I read it.
  • Again, I am not going to promote HATE, so I'll leave it at that. The words of encouragement, I'm sure to Carlos, are appreciated.

William, apalnative:

  • This "situation" is rather unique, as are everyone's. Carlos and William did communicate via email, Facebook, and text message. I am the inside "houseboy" and Carlos would be the outside "houseboy/farmboy." This was made very clear to me and that I still had a job. I worked off the expenses it took to get me down here; no complaints there from me. Carlos did have a few extra bags upon arrival than I was expecting to see for someone staying for a week. When I came down for TWO WEEKS, I packed a carry-on luggage bag, my backpack, and light jacket. When Carlos arrived, he had to at least checked one bag, if not two (so you, the reader, can get a visual). We learned more about Carlos the rest of that day and the next while driving back to the house, including his liking of pot/weed. We well informed him that there is a zero tolerance policy at the house about illegal/mistreated substances, and he agreed to such. There were A LOT of items that Carlos brought with him that we found "weird," but to him it could all be normal, everyday stuff.
  • All of us at the house (Boyd, William, and myself) work away from home in Tallahassee, so yes, there was a HUGE trustworthiness bestowed upon Carlos to be left alone at the house after knowing him in person for a day or two. From what I witnessed, Carlos was given instruction and shown examples of things to do, etc. from William. William is a multi-business owner.
  • Yes, I did find out where Carlos was spending his time. The internet is a tool and I used it. Certain websites and apps have a last login date and a time, if given. I only used what was publicly provided, aka the facts. It's also not my fault of others not knowing of this tool/power. Carlos chose to leave and there is no denying that fact. In doing so, in my opinion, Carlos voided whatever he and William agreed upon to get him back to Texas and, logically, was given the cheapest option to return where he came from. It was the following day that Carlos had his bags packed and was ready to go, but before then plans had changed yet again. Carlos asked for the value of the bus fare and demanded such in cash, not a bus voucher/ticket. A very short time later, a Ford Tauras pulls into the driveway and Carlos rushed out with his belongings. I don't personally know how long Carlos and Sean had been talking, but at that moment it felt to me as though Carlos saw a way to get out of Texas, somewhere, anywhere, and we were hosting him until he could find a better suitor.
  • In closing about William, reading his post gave me a headache with all the editorial errors. It's a constant #TheStruggleIsReal with him about that.

PHEW!!!!! If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. :)

- Arthur

P.S. If there are any grammatical errors, please let me know so I may learn from them.

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The way I see it is Carlos played the employer a bit, I mean if someone doesn't even know how to handle a rake how can they know how to work with farm animals, or much of any other kind of household chores or for that matter tending a garden. I've worked is several jobs in the past most as an apprentice for someone else. Painter, Carpet Installer, did Automotive Repair for a little bit but that didn't work out very well, other misc jobs we'll call odds and ends. And we have several farm animals around the property my family owns if you don't know how to take care of chickens or any other kind of farm pet you just don't need to be around them. Now as for driving, of course I don't drive myself because of complications with my California birth certificate and my lazy family not wanting to help with that. The way I see it is Carlos is a first time houseboy, that was looking more for a way to relocate somewhere else and use this as free room and board.

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